On August 9, Prime Minister Masrour Barzani was interviewed by Al Jazeera journalist Ali Zafiri. The interview began with a discussion of his personal life, followed by political, security and economic challenges, the Kurdistan Region’s position towards tensions in the region, and then Erbil’s relations with Baghdad and neighboring countries.
The Prime Minister’s main points:
- The Region is not a threat to any country, and we have succeeded in diversifying our economy away from fluctuations in the energy sector.
- Decentralization is the key to the development of strong countries, and the attacks by armed groups on Kurdistan are unjustified.
- Kurdistan offers an advanced example of governance and services, and we are racing against time in the construction phase.
- We have provided a peaceful environment that attracts large global companies, and domestic investors have proven successful under the most difficult circumstances.
- We strongly support all peace efforts in the region. Peaceful language and dialogue are the way to resolve all outstanding issues.
Below is the text of the interview:
Al Jazeera: We are pleased to be here on Al-Muqabla and to have this opportunity to talk about the Kurdistan Region, especially the major challenges that surround it.
Prime Minister: Thank you.
Al Jazeera: You were born in Kurdistan, but you grew up abroad?
Prime Minister: Yes, I was born in 1969 in Kurdistan, in a mountainous area called Dilman in Erbil province.
Al Jazeera: Then you went to Iran?
Prime Minister: Yes.
Al Jazeera: How many years did you live in Iran?
Prime Minister: Until about 1991.
Al Jazeera: It’s been a long time.
Prime Minister: Yes.
Al Jazeera: So you speak Persian?
Prime Minister: Yes, I am fluent in Persian.
Al Jazeera: Did you live in Tehran?
Prime Minister: No, we were in Karaj at first, then we went to Urmia and lived in a Kurdish area called Slevana.
Al Jazeera: Then you went abroad to study?
Prime Minister: Yes, after the uprising we returned to Iraq, to Iraqi Kurdistan, then I went to the United States and returned in 1998.
Al Jazeera: This is the third generation to govern the Kurdistan Region. Are there any big differences?
Prime Minister: Yes, there is a difference between the present and the past.
Al Jazeera: The first generation was a generation of war and conflict, and now it is a generation of construction. Can we say that?
Prime Minister: We will strive for that.
Al Jazeera: Do you feel that the Region has breathed a sigh of relief in terms of stability?
Prime Minister: Of course. The situation is better, but as you can see, there are problems.
Al Jazeera: Kurds have no friends except the mountains.
Prime Minister: God willing, there are friends. We are friends of all people and friends of all nations.
Al Jazeera: Are they your friends too?
Prime Minister: This is another matter. I cannot settle this. God willing, they are our friends.
Al Jazeera: One of the challenges of the Kurdish nation is that it may be the only nation in the world that does not have an independent national homeland. We are talking about 50 million people, divided among states, especially Turkey and Iran.
Prime Minister: There is no exact figure, but there are probably 50 million, and there are also a number in Europe and other regions.
Al Jazeera: The Kurdistan Region now expresses Kurdish identity. Mr. Prime Minister, we are pleased to have you here. There are many political issues related to the Kurdistan Region, the ongoing war, and your domestic and foreign relations that we want to discuss. Welcome.
Prime Minister: Thank you very much.
Al Jazeera: The Iranian war is the hottest issue today. How do you view this war, where it has reached, and what the future holds? What is the Kurdistan Government’s position on this war?
Prime Minister: Our position was clear from day one: we do not want to be a party to any conflict or war in the region. Of course, it was not us who started this war. What we want is to protect the Kurdistan Region and keep it away from any conflict. We also prefer a peaceful solution to any problem. It is our belief that any war will eventually end in a peaceful settlement, but only after wasting a lot of time and resources and losing many lives, before the parties finally come to a peaceful settlement. Therefore, we would like to see a peaceful agreement in which the interests of all parties are taken into account and respected. Regarding the Kurdistan Region, we hope that all parties respect the sovereignty of Iraqi territory and the Kurdistan Region.
Al Jazeera: Have there been attempts, in your opinion, to draw the Kurdistan Region into this war, to participate in this war, or to become part of it in some way?
Prime Minister: There may have been attempts, but our position was clear from day one: we do not want to be drawn into a war that we do not want to be part of.
Al Jazeera: What were those efforts? That is, were you encouraged to participate by the United States?
Prime Minister: No, there was no pressure. Let me be quite clear: no side has pressured us to take part in any war. We have our national interests, and those interests come first. We respect our relations with our friends, but we do not want to be a party to a new war.
Al Jazeera: As Prime Minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government, Mr. Masrour Barzani, how do you assess the results of the war so far?
Prime Minister: It is a very difficult situation. As you know, the region is experiencing instability, which has had a negative impact on the economy, not only in the region but also globally. The region is living in a state of uncertainty, where we do not know what the end of this war will be. As a result, anxiety is prevalent here in the Kurdistan Region, as well as in many other places. We all hope this war will end soon.
Al Jazeera: That is, you hope to stay out of the war, but your situation is such that there are parties that force you, or usually involve you, in this war. On the one hand, a number of Iraqi NGOs are targeting the Region and targeting specific areas. Iran is also targeting other parts of the Region. On the other hand, the Iranian Kurdish opposition parties are playing a role against Iran, and there is a response to them. It seems that the situation does not allow you to stay away from this war?
Prime Minister: Regarding the opposition in the Kurdistan Region, they have been here since before 1991, but they existed even before that and came to Iraq as refugees. Therefore, we inherited this problem and did not cause it. Many of these people have families, and a large number of them are spread across different parts of the Region. In addition, we have done what we can to ensure that everyone adheres to the official policy of the Region and our government, so that they do not become a party to any problem and do not pose a threat to the security of any of our neighbors. Regarding the attacks on the Kurdistan Region, it is unfortunate that these attacks have actually happened. The Region has so far faced more than 1,000 missile and drone attacks, whether directly from Iran or from within Iraq by some militias. Unfortunately, we believe that all these attacks against Kurdistan are unfounded. We have also suffered casualties and lost a number of our sons. Several major parts of our infrastructure have also suffered extensive damage. Of course, we have condemned these attacks on the Kurdistan Region and continue to condemn them, because the Region does not intend to become a party to this conflict or even to be seen as a threat to the security of any party.
Al Jazeera: What are the stated reasons for the attacks on the Region, with this huge number of more than 1,000 attacks?
Prime Minister: Well, they were very clear about the reasons. One of these reasons is that they believe that the Kurdistan Region, like other parts of Iraq, hosts coalition forces, which came to Iraq at the invitation of the Iraqi government, and their mission was to fight ISIS and terrorism, so their presence continued. As we all know, this mission will end at the end of September, and the forces will leave the country from then on. So, the presence of coalition forces was one of the reasons they relied on. I think the decision to withdraw them was a very bad decision by all those who see the coalition forces as a problem, because they came to help the Iraqi people. Regarding the attacks on the Kurdistan Region on the pretext of the presence of these forces, this is unacceptable and cannot be justified under any pretext. Of course, we also heard that the presence of the Kurdish opposition in the Kurdistan Region is considered by some of them as another reason for launching their attacks on us. However, unfortunately, these attacks were not limited to a specific area, but spread to different areas across the entire Region and caused casualties. Even our civilians paid the greatest price, and the attacks had a great impact on the economy of the Region. But, as I said, the Kurdistan Region is not a party to this war. We did everything we could to ensure that the Region does not pose any threat to the security of any party, whether they are parties to the conflict, regional forces, or neighboring countries. To be frank with you, I think that these are just empty excuses for targeting the Kurdistan Region and cannot be justified in any way.
Al Jazeera: Doesn’t the US attack against Iran start from the Kurdistan Region? There is talk of the Harir base in the Kurdistan Region, which may be the starting point for an attack on Iran, according to Iranian accusations, and therefore may be targeted.
Prime Minister: This is not true. First, Harir Air Base has been empty for ten years. It was first used by coalition forces in the fight against ISIS. Harir base is empty. These attacks all targeted an empty base, and there are no US troops in Harir, nor are there any military forces there at all. Of course, we had an American presence in Erbil, which was targeted several times. However, as you know, the mission of the Americans in the Kurdistan Region was limited to fighting terrorism and protecting Iraqi citizens, including the residents of the Kurdistan Region, from terrorist threats.
Al Jazeera: What is the size of the US presence in the Region?
Prime Minister: Now, they no longer have any presence. As you know, those forces did leave. As a result, the United States will terminate its obligations under the agreement between itself and the federal government.
Al Jazeera: Iranian accusations about the activities of Iranian Kurdish opposition parties that consider the Region or the border of the Region as their base… How do you deal with this issue?
Prime Minister: We believe that any problem related to the Kurds, in any country, must be resolved peacefully. The best way to do that is through dialogue. Therefore, if there are differences or conflicts with political groups or entities, or as in this case with the Kurds in Iran, we believe that the right way is to open the door to dialogue between the different parties. Of course, no one can deny the existence of the Kurds. The Kurds are an indigenous part of the countries in the region in which they live and belong to this land. But in this particular case, we believe that the scale of the threat depicted, or the way the Kurds are portrayed as posing a serious threat to Iran’s national security, is exaggerated. The Kurds did not have that great an influence and have no real intention of playing a role that would make matters worse. Basically, everyone is trying to protect themselves, and we in the Kurdistan Region have done everything to ensure the security and stability of our borders and to ensure that the territory of the Region is not used by any party to harm any of our neighbors.
Al Jazeera: But Mr. Prime Minister, you know that at the beginning of the war, there was a lot of talk between the US and Israel about the role of Iranian Kurdish opposition parties in overthrowing the regime. That is, there was a backlash against the Iranian Kurds at the beginning of the war.
Prime Minister: It is the right of each party to offer its own analysis, views, or preferences as to the consequences of any event. But as for this war, I say it with all clarity: we have not been a party to this war, and we will not be a party to it.
Al Jazeera: The issue of Israel and its relationship with Kurdistan is unclear in the Arab world. How does Mr. Masrour Barzani view the issue of the Kurdistan Region’s special relations with Israel?
Prime Minister: The Kurdistan Region is part of Iraq and does not pursue an independent foreign policy. Therefore, we are committed to the foreign policy of the Iraqi state and will follow the path of the federal government.
Al Jazeera: So the Region has nothing to do with Israel?
Prime Minister: As I mentioned, we have nothing to do with it. Official relations and foreign policy are within the jurisdiction of the federal government and not within our jurisdiction.
Al Jazeera: Now, Mr. Masrour Barzani, you are the Prime Minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the Kurdistan Region, and you are part of a great federal Iraq. There is a problem with Iraq and its attitude towards the war. Neighbors are hurt by militia activities, Hashdi Shaabi in particular, and some NGOs are bombing neighboring countries. They bombed Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and they even bombed Iraq, Kurdistan now, and it is unclear whether Iraq will be able to control this. How do you view this?
Prime Minister: We follow the official policy of the federal government, especially the position of Prime Minister Zaidi, which emphasizes that no group outside the framework of the Iraqi state should take up arms or have the authority to threaten the security of Iraq or neighboring countries. So, some of the activities carried out by some of these groups harm Iraq primarily before they harm its neighbors. We saw how many of Iraq’s neighboring countries responded to attacks by these groups, whether by missiles or drones. Unfortunately, these attacks extended to the Kurdistan Region. Over the past few months, our infrastructure, civilian targets, and even our military bases have faced a series of attacks, and this is an issue that must stop. We fully support the Prime Minister in his efforts to ensure that everyone complies with the rule of law and that no one outside the official state forces is able to threaten the security of Iraqis or the security of neighboring countries.
Al Jazeera: Are these groups stronger than the state? That is, these groups attack Iraq, attack the Kurdistan Region, attack neighboring countries, threaten Syria and Jordan, and everyone complains about them. Are they stronger than the state?
Prime Minister: I cannot say that they are stronger than the government. I believe that there has been no serious attempt to disarm them by force, because the direction, so far, is to reach a peaceful agreement that guarantees that these groups surrender their weapons or integrate into the Iraqi security forces. So, no real attempt has been made to confront them by force. I think this is the right approach to ensure these groups’ eventual compliance with state laws and regulations.
Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, does this open the door to the big question of Iranian hegemony in Iraq?
Prime Minister: Iraq is a neighboring country of Iran, so it is normal to have relations between them, but we have always emphasized that these relations must be based on mutual respect and trust. All states must respect each other, according to the traditions that govern their relations and the mechanisms by which these relations are governed. We also believe that Iraq must emphasize the protection and strengthening of its national interests, while building natural relations with all neighboring countries is the natural way to manage these relations. But, as I said, Iraq must be completely independent in its decisions and put the interests of its people and its national interests above all else.
Al Jazeera: The two sides of the war now, the United States and Iran, are both major players in shaping Iraqi decision-making since 2003 and the overthrow of the former Iraqi regime. How can Iraq balance the two sides of the war with US and Iranian hegemony?
Prime Minister: As you know, Iraq has gone through a series of events that have put it in a very difficult position. The previous regime collapsed, then came the US invasion of Iraq, which was initially called an invasion, and then the forces introduced themselves as the offensive force. Since then, the foreign military presence in Iraq has continued to varying degrees. Then we saw the rise of terrorism, which forced the United States and its coalition forces to return to Iraq at the request of the Iraqi government, and many friendly European countries joined them. Thus, the presence of several foreign forces in Iraq was established to help it counter threats and foreign forces. Of course, Iran also tried to, let’s say, increase its hegemony whenever it got the chance. Iran saw these circumstances as a way to strengthen its presence and increase its influence inside Iraq. This put Iraq in a position where it had to manage this relationship. On the one hand, Iraq is linked to all the countries that have helped it in the past. On the other hand, there are many commonalities between Iraq and Iran. We have many things in common that bring the two countries closer together, such as religion, geography, and history. Therefore, Iraq must manage this relationship. But, in my view, the Iraqi national interest must come first.
Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, where is the war headed?
Prime Minister: It is very difficult to predict. I know that it will end one day, but the question is: when? I don’t know specifically. I don’t know how many people will be killed, how much infrastructure will be destroyed, or how much time will be wasted before this war ends.
Al Jazeera: Do you think the war is expanding or coming to an imminent end?
Prime Minister: I cannot predict. Of course, there is a lot of talk. People talk about scenarios: what will happen, whether the war will lead to a better outcome, or whether the negotiations will lead to some kind of peaceful agreement between the United States and Iran. So, there are many predictions, but from my point of view, nothing is certain yet, so it is very difficult for me to predict what will happen.
Al Jazeera: The Kurdistan Region has had many economic problems in the past. What are the direct effects of the US-Israeli-Iranian war on the Region?
Prime Minister: It has a direct and huge impact on our economy. As you know, the Iraqi government, as a country that relies on oil exports, could not export its oil with the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, which had a negative impact on the Iraqi economy, of which we are part. So, of course, when Iraq is affected, we are directly affected.
Some drone and missile attacks have also slowed economic activity in the Kurdistan Region in recent months. Trade with other countries has declined significantly. We can say that our business volume is more than 70% lower than before. So, this of course has an impact on the Kurdistan Regional Government’s economy.
If this war continues, I think the situation will get worse, not only for the Kurdistan Region and Iraq, but for the entire region. As you can see, many countries around the world are also affected by this ongoing war.
Al Jazeera: Doesn’t this revive the discussions on the issue of oil, oil fields, and Kurdistan’s exports? Is Kurdistan a great alternative that is not influenced by the Arabian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz? Do these wars and economic difficulties not revive the discussions on the oil issue?
Prime Minister: We have said clearly that the Kurdistan Region is ready to help Baghdad in any way. We fully support Prime Minister Zaidi and will do our best to support the country’s economy. But we have to be realistic. Iraq was exporting more than four million barrels of oil from the south. What we have in the Kurdistan Region cannot compensate for these losses. We cannot produce more than 300,000 barrels, and it may go up to 400,000 barrels if there is further investment. However, there may be about 300,000 barrels from Kirkuk. Even if the federal government can shift some of its exports from other parts of the country through the Kurdistan Region to Turkey, let’s assume we reach a million barrels. This is still not enough.
Iraq needs to export more oil to compensate for the loss of revenue. So yes, the Kurdistan Region is ready to help. It can reduce the size of the burden, but of course it cannot solve the problem completely.
Al Jazeera: To what extent can oil be exported through the Kurdistan Region?
Prime Minister: As I explained, the Kurdistan Region needs more investment to increase production, but the current threats and previous attacks by some of these groups on oil infrastructure, wells, and refineries have made it very difficult for oil companies to return to investment.
These companies were unable to return to production and resume operations until recently, following assurances given to them by Prime Minister Zaidi, the Iraqi government, and the Oil Ministry. But reaching maximum productivity takes time. As for increasing production, it requires more investment. However, the available production capacity here is still far below what Iraq can produce in the south. Therefore, in addition to the assistance of the Kurdistan Region, Iraq should be able to export its oil in order to obtain the necessary revenue and ensure the sustainability of its economy.
Al Jazeera: But does this require resolving the issues of the oil law and reviewing the right of the Region to produce and export oil, etc.?
Prime Minister: Yes, of course, but unfortunately, there is no oil law yet, and it will take some time to approve it because the matter will go back to the House of Representatives to decide on it. This law is necessary because we need an oil and gas law that clearly defines the rights of each party.
Of course, we have a Constitution, and it clearly defines the rights of the Region and the rights of the federal government. Therefore, we have no problem with the Constitution because it has already addressed this issue and there is agreement on it. But we still don’t have a law, and the Iraqi government still relies on a law that goes back to 1975. The law has been repealed because it dates back to the previous regime.
So far, there is no law in this regard. The system has changed, and Iraq has gone from a centralized state to a federal state, but the laws have remained the same, which creates problems. This is one of the reasons why we have faced some problems so far.
Al Jazeera: I would like Prime Minister Masrour Barzani to assess this relationship with the federal government. There is now a Region that has a high level of independence in its laws, but it is part of a large federal Iraq, and there are problems. What are the most obvious problems that the Kurds and the federal government have not overcome? Let’s count them as focal points.
Prime Minister: The biggest problem in following the federal system is that there are still people in Baghdad who do not believe in the federal system or do not even understand it. The federal system has also not been implemented as it should have been, and I think this is the biggest problem because many articles of the Constitution have not been enacted. Therefore, there have been attempts to ignore some of the articles in the Constitution that are very basic to the organization and normalization of relations between Baghdad and Kurdistan. This is why some of the problems continue, as there are wrong or different interpretations of some of the provisions of the Constitution between the two sides. Therefore, in our view, if the Constitution had been implemented as it should have been and if all parties had respected the federal system, the problems between us would have been minimized.
Al Jazeera: So the Constitution has not been implemented properly?
Prime Minister: No, not at all. I am not blaming a particular government or a particular person, but I am saying that this has been the problem in general since 2005, when the Constitution was adopted, until today: Iraq has not committed to implementing the Constitution, or has not implemented it in the way it should have.
Al Jazeera: The federal mindset is different from the universal national mindset. Is that true?
Prime Minister: Yes.
Al Jazeera: I mean the ruling mindset in Baghdad in general. Are the political elites not very federal?
Prime Minister: Not all of them. Many people understand it well, and there are those who understand the importance of Iraq’s transition to a federal system. Many also understand the advantages of this system over centralized systems. In fact, during our conversations with many provinces across the country, we found that they all suffer from this centralized mentality because centralization is not always the best option for the country. Sometimes decentralization and sharing power with others is the best way forward.
Al Jazeera: Some are afraid of the division of power, which may eventually lead to separation.
Prime Minister: This is not true, because there are many very successful models in the world of countries that follow the federal system, and they are also very strong countries. Look at Germany, look at the United States of America, or look at the United Arab Emirates and Switzerland. You can find many successful federal states.
Therefore, the problem is not with the system itself, but with the mentality of some people who, unfortunately, misunderstand this system and try to impose a different ideology. In fact, going back to 2005, we had a Constitution, and this Constitution is a package of compromises that all parties had reached. We in Kurdistan made many compromises in order to achieve a federal system. Therefore, the federal system does not necessarily meet all the demands of everyone, but it is the best system available.
Al Jazeera: Let’s count the problems: disputed areas, the oil and gas law, what else? I want to know the problems that reflect the lack of progress of federalism.
Prime Minister: Let me repeat that having faith in the federal system itself and being convinced that it is the best system to move forward is enough to solve everything else.
What we are talking about is Article 140 on the disputed areas, or the oil and gas law, even issues such as trade, taxes, etc., which are all pending issues. The reason is the difference in mentality. There are people who believe that everything should be centralized, so some of these articles have been ignored and the issue of the disputed areas has not been dealt with properly.
I mean, the Constitution set a timetable within which this issue had to be resolved. I think many of our problems with Baghdad would have been solved if Article 140 had been implemented. The Oil and Gas Law would also have resolved disputes concerning the use of oil and gas during these years. But we don’t have this law, so we still face these problems.
As for the tax system, what are the powers of the federal government? What about the regions and provinces? How much of these taxes go back to each region? These are issues that have not yet been settled and remain unclear.
Al Jazeera: There are two models: the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) model and its governance, from 2005 to the present, as well as the central or federal government model in Baghdad. Some argue that the KRG model is more advanced and modern in terms of digitalization, governance, services provided, recovery, attracting investment, laws, etc.
Here I want to turn to Mr. Masrour Barzani’s vision for economic reform. Would you bet on this? What does your economic reform project include? What are the differences between you and the situation of the federal government in Baghdad?
Prime Minister: Let us not forget that we started in 1991, after the uprising, while Baghdad started after the fall of Saddam Hussein’s regime in 2003. That is, the difference was twelve years.
Al Jazeera: I mean 15 years until conditions stabilized in 2007?
Prime Minister: But from 2003 until today, there has been enough time to mature, or to do many things, especially for Baghdad and Iraq as a sovereign and independent state. I mean, they can do many things. Iraq also has its own natural resources and is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of natural resources, human resources, and strategic location. Therefore, Iraq is a very important country and will not collapse because it has all the foundations that enable it to rise again and improve the situation. All it needs is proper management and decision-making. We really hope that these right decisions will be taken under the leadership of Prime Minister Zaidi. For this reason, we fully support the initiatives he puts forward.
Al Jazeera: These are Mr. Barzani’s hopes, but I want the reality.
Prime Minister: As I said, there is a difference. There are differences between the Kurdistan Region and other parts of Iraq. In the Kurdistan Region, we have been able to take steps in economic reform, or reform in general, fighting corruption, and economic diversification. All these steps have had positive results.
We focused a lot on digitizing services, and to achieve this, we had to collect data so that we do not base our decisions on personal analysis, but on the database we collect. Therefore, any decision made is based on a scientific analysis of the situation.
Second, we tried to diversify the economy so that we would not rely solely on oil or its exports. As you can see, the cessation of oil exports put the country in crisis, so we have invested heavily in the agricultural sector, established various industries and built factories, encouraged the tourism sector, and paid great attention to the education and health sectors.
Thus, we have focused on several areas through which our economy can be diversified and higher revenues can be generated, without being completely dependent on oil and gas.
I think this approach is needed more broadly throughout Iraq because Iraq has other resources besides oil and gas. Oil and gas revenues should be better managed. A large part of state money goes to salaries, and there is a lot of expenditure that needs to be better managed if the country wants to achieve development.
Instead of employing more people in the public sector every year, the private sector should be encouraged and its role strengthened. For this reason, since 2013, employment in government offices in the Kurdistan Region has no longer been allowed, but has been reduced to a contract system.
However, these restrictions exist in the Kurdistan Region, but not in other parts of the country. This issue also needs better management. I mean, the focus has to be on strengthening the private sector.
Attention should also be paid to the banking sector, as it is essential for investment and invaluable for the growth of various business activities, and to providing an environment where people feel they do not need to be mere civil servants to provide for their future. This is what we did in the Kurdistan Region. There are also many other things that we have accomplished and that have proven successful, such as electricity and water projects.
Al Jazeera: Which side affects the other? I mean, are they pulling you toward the federal government, or are you trying to pull the federal government toward better prospects? Especially since you don’t have an independent budget and the federal problems mean that you are completely dependent in terms of the budget and economy.
Prime Minister: We have gone through different stages. There were people in Baghdad who absolutely believed that everything should be centralized. In contrast, there are those who see the Kurdistan Region as a successful model and try to take advantage of its successes, perhaps repeating that experience.
Al Jazeera: Who is investing in Kurdistan? Who are the big investors?
Prime Minister: Of course, we have a large number of domestic investors in Kurdistan. They have really been the saviors of our economy in difficult times. I must express my deep gratitude to all the investors and businessmen in the Kurdistan Region, to the private sector, who have carried out these projects through their own efforts, without receiving much support from the government.
We also have investors from outside the Region. We have American and European investors, especially in the oil and energy sectors, and in the agricultural sector, we have partnerships with many countries around the world, such as the Netherlands and Germany.
Al Jazeera: Who is your first economic partner in the region?
Prime Minister: Turkey.
Al Jazeera: Turkey?
Prime Minister: Yes. They have the largest number of investors, and we have the largest volume of trade with Turkey.
Al Jazeera: What are your relations with Turkey?
Prime Minister: Our relations with Turkey are very good. There is a good understanding between us, we have supported each other at different levels, and we have trade relations and extensive economic activity.
Al Jazeera: What are the outstanding issues between you and Turkey? The labor issue, the targeting issue, the military intervention issue, etc.?
Prime Minister: Of course, there were these problems. As a result of this ongoing conflict, 800 villages in our country are still destroyed, and we have not been able to rebuild them due to the continued fighting and clashes in the border areas between us and Turkey.
So there were certainly problems, but fortunately, Turkey has seen a peace initiative in the last two years, and we have strongly supported that initiative. We hope it will lead to more peaceful agreements and compromises and strengthen security.
Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, Turkey has the largest Kurdish community, about 30 million people according to statistics. If the Kurdish issue is resolved in Turkey, it may contribute to calming the issue in general. Is that right? How do you view the Kurdish issue in Turkey?
Prime Minister: They have their own way of resolving these issues. It is clear that the Kurds in Turkey have their own demands, and we have only supported any peaceful agreement between the government and the Kurds. Not all Kurds belong to the same political party. There are Kurds who belong to the party that is in power today. So yes, resolving the Kurdish issue in Turkey is considered an important task in helping to reach a final solution to the Kurdish issue throughout the region.
Al Jazeera: A very big development took place in Syria. The Syrian regime collapsed and President Al-Sharaa came to power. It seems that he has made a lot of progress with HSD (SDF) and has resolved the issue of HSD (SDF) and merged them with the state. How does Mr. Masrour Barzani, Prime Minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government, view this issue?
Prime Minister: We believe that Syria has risen from the ashes. The country has gone through a very difficult situation. I think what has been accomplished in the last two years has been very positive and constructive. Obviously, there are still problems, but we have strongly supported the dialogue between Damascus and the Kurds in Syria.
President Massoud Barzani has been invited in this context and has played an influential role in helping to continue these discussions and negotiations. There are now good relations between Erbil and Damascus, which are growing, so we support any positive and constructive initiative or step that will eventually lead to an end to and resolution of the current problems in Syria.
Al Jazeera: Do you think the new Syrian regime is serious about resolving the Kurdish issue, the outstanding issues, the citizenship issue, the rights issues, etc.?
Prime Minister: They have already decided to grant citizenship to the Kurds. Yes, we have seen that they are very serious about this. President Al-Sharaa has already ordered that the Kurds be granted citizenship. I don’t know if the procedures have been completed, but I know that he had already made that decision.
Al Jazeera: Do you think you in the Kurdistan Region are involved in any Kurdish issue in any neighboring country?
Prime Minister: Of course, they are our flesh and blood and our brothers. There are many common ties and interests between us. We respect their privacy and we respect that they live in another country, but of course, we fully support their rights, in acceptable ways and in ways that enable them to reach agreements with their governments.
Al Jazeera: Has the new Syrian administration asked you for help in managing the problems with HSD (SDF), or in dealing with the Kurdish issue in some way?
Prime Minister: There have been discussions before, and we have played a very constructive role in bringing the perspectives of the two sides closer together.
Al Jazeera: Regarding the situation of the Kurds in the West, is it clearer today than it was during the previous regime?
Prime Minister: So far, yes. This is what we have seen. We have gone through two different periods in the past. There was a period when the Kurdish presence in Syria was denied, then came the period of ISIS, when the Kurds were forced to fight this organization in the areas where they lived, and today all Syrians, including the Kurds, have entered a different period. There are Kurds who now have seats in the People’s Assembly (parliament), and there are Kurds who have received ministerial positions in the new government.
We know these problems will not be solved overnight. There are still issues that need to be addressed. But the most important one is building trust, because as soon as trust is established, I think that paves the way for better communication and reaching better agreements.
Al Jazeera: Mr. Barzani, is the Kurdish issue a major criterion for your relations with these countries?
Prime Minister: We have our own special relations with all neighboring countries, whether with Turkey, Syria, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait. The countries with which we have direct borders are Syria, Turkey, and Iran. We have relations with all these countries, but of course the Kurdish factor is one of the most important factors in shaping our relations with these countries.
Al Jazeera: The Kurdish issue in Turkey is a major issue and has undergone major changes. President Erdogan has made a great effort on this issue. Syria was also a major issue, despite the short term of President Al-Sharaa, because there have been major changes. What about Iran? Will we no longer hear about the Kurdish issue there?
Prime Minister: Yes, each of them has treated the Kurds in its own way. For example, Turkey long denied the existence of the Kurds. But over the past two decades, especially under the current ruling party, and even among opposition parties that took a tough stance against the Kurds, everyone today recognizes that the Kurds not only exist, but are an important part of Turkey.
But in Iran, for example, there is a province called Kurdistan. Sanandaj was the capital of Kurdistan Province in Iran. However, Kurdish participation, especially at the government level, has been limited. So, they had their own way of dealing with the Kurds. Of course, there are many rights that the Kurds in Iran demand and feel deprived of. We support the Kurds having equal rights wherever they are and in whatever country they live. They should not become second-class citizens, but should be citizens with all their rights and be treated equally.
Al Jazeera: The Kurdish proverb that we started with at the beginning of the program, which says, “The Kurds have no friends except the mountains,” refers to the situation of conflict and wars. Now, what is the younger generation betting on? Is the era of war between countries over, and is there talk of equal citizenship and equal rights for Kurds in their region or in the countries where they live? What is Mr. Masrour Barzani betting on?
Prime Minister: Look, many young people and the new generation do not know the meaning of oppression and do not know about the Anfal campaigns or chemical attacks, for example, in Iraq. They don’t know this because they were born many years after these events. When they were born, the Kurdistan Region was a federal entity, so they lived in a free environment all those years.
They also have access to the Internet and the world and know what is happening in Australia, the United States, Europe, Africa, and other parts of the world. People today have easier access to information, so they are aware of what is going on. The aspirations of the new generation are different. As you know, they are no longer living under heavy pressure, but they are trying to live a better life and build a better system. They look to developed countries as models to aspire to. So, they compare themselves to the best models in the world. Hence, their expectations are always high.
This makes our task somewhat more difficult, because we have to balance reality with the expectations of the younger generation, so we try to manage this in the best way we can. But I can tell you that we have a young generation that is full of energy and life. They have a high level of intelligence and are well educated. I am very optimistic and have high hopes for their future.
Al Jazeera: Mr. Masrour Barzani, Prime Minister of the Iraqi Kurdistan Region, thank you for your presence on the program. We thank you and wish for a better situation for Iraq, Kurdistan, and everyone.
Prime Minister: Thank you very much.
original article (in Kurdish)
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